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"the best weather, culture, food, wine, beaches, etc, you name it."

Hmm. Why not go there, write some code for the broader world, start the business somewhere else?



Just to give you an example of the idiocy of our bureaucracy: paying a subscription to the Google Apps (around 3 euros per month per user) is considered like importing physical goods, therefore every 3 months we have to submit a form called 'Intrastat'. Since the bureaucracy is insane you need to pay a professional to handle the madness, so on top of the small Google fee you need to pay an additional ~50 euros every three months. On top of that, the next month you need to submit a form called F24, paying a tax on the 50 euros you just spent for nothing. Oh but the food is great.


Because you need a residence permit to stay for more than 90 days for each 6 months, and you won't generally be able to rent without it. No school for kids either, etc. And that's if you come from the first world country that has a no-visa arrangement with EU. Otherwise you will need an entry visa as well.


Is this an older regulation or is it the result of Italy being the target of more and more immigrants in recent years?

[edit: typo]


It's simple: because if you live here, you have to pay taxes here. A lot of taxes. And the Italian equivalent of IRS can just come to you and say that you don't pay enough, you're presumed guilty and you'll have to accept to pay a fine or try to prove you're innocent in court (which could take years).


Is this an older regulation or is it the result of Italy being more and more pressured by the EU to fix their household in recent years?


It's a result of rampant corruption.

The government pretty much accepts that certain categories (say, dentists) hide a lot of their profits. Instead of fixing this, they decided to just assume you are hiding ~60% of what you declare and tax you accordingly.

A few years later they decided to just create a table of what each professional from each category should earn and if you declare less than that you can expect an extremely unpleasant visit which WILL find something wrong with your business.

Law-abiding people get crushed under this weight, while tax evaders just declare even less (or even operate completely outside of the law). Good people get punished, bad people don't. Going to the authorities to report these people can be successful, or unsuccessful, or frustrating, or very unhealthy. Feel like gambling?

After 10 years of this you start wondering if you're the idiot. You can become one of the "furbi", or keep trying to work in this broken framework, or leave.

I left.

Oh and the tax code is so byzantine you need to pay a professional even if you have an extremely small and simple business. And even they make mistakes. And you get to pay for those mistakes.


No, this isn't a result of the last crisis. The government is trying to reduce the amount of black economy but it's doing it in the wrong way. There are statistics that the government uses to calculate what you should earn every year, if you declare less than that amount, you're presumed guilty and you'll have to justify that...


Ok, thanks. Crazy.

You all should just reform the Holy Roman Empire... ;-)

</sarcasm>


Well, this actually isn't so bad. The good thing about Italy is that if you live here life is pretty cheap - compared to Silicon Valley. So, you could consider Italy like "a garage" where to start your venture or even a place where you can localize your programmers while running your business somewhere else. Of course it doesn't apply to people not living here, ... so why on Earth a startup visa program? Open the gates to founders is not enough is you don't create a income tax + regulation free + labour tax + notary free zone in the country to attract talented people here. Until today we don't have it and this thread is just a proof of Italian high tech entrepreneurs discouragement.




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