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An open letter from the founders of Scribd to those of you who didn't get into YC
44 points by snowmaker on Oct 24, 2007 | hide | past | favorite | 43 comments
"The best place to work, if you want to start a startup, is probably a startup. In addition to being the right sort of experience, one way or another it will be over quickly. You'll either end up rich, in which case problem solved, or the startup will get bought, in which case it it will start to suck to work there and it will be easy to leave, or most likely, the thing will blow up and you'll be free again." - PG

So you didn't get into YC. We all know it probably isn't your fault - PG admits that with so many applicants, the choice becomes increasingly arbitrary. The question is: what do you do now? If you're a hacker, you're probably weighing three options: (1) Start your startup anyway; (2) Work for Google, Apple, etc; or (3) Work at someone else's startup

If you want to do 1, more power to you. It would have been easier with YC, but if you work hard you could still pull it off. Unfortunately, too many great programmers see only options 1 and 2, and forget that the next best thing to starting your own successful startup, is getting in on someone else's while it's still young. It's also a great path to eventually starting your own company.

Although Scribd now has 8 people, working at Scribd is a lot more like doing your own startup than working at a big company. This is true in terms of the work environment: at Scribd you'll work with a bunch of YC hackers, you'll have a huge impact on the product, and you won't have to deal with management or bureaucracy. But - and this is often overlooked - it is also true economically. Valuations are always debatable, but the cash value of the equity you would get in Scribd is actually higher than the cash value of the equity you would get in a new YC startup, which is only about $125K. At Scribd we'll either all get rich or we all won't, and you'll participate in that.

Scribd was originally started by the merger of two Y Combinator companies, and since then, everyone who has joined has either been a YC applicant or someone who started a company themselves. YC startups often "cannibalize" each other in that way, and it makes sense. We want to keep this trend going, and right now we need help more than ever to scale our insanely fast-growing website and to develop the technology that is going to revolutionize the way that documents are shared on the Web.

If you are interested, send us an email at hackers@scribd.com, or just call Trip's cell phone at 617-335-6685. Feel free to get in touch about anything, even if you just want some advice about what to do now. For more details about working at Scribd and our uncorporate culture, check out our jobs page: http://www.scribd.com/static/jobs

Sincerely, Trip, Jared, and Tikhon



So let me ask everyone who reads this, why would you not want to work for Scribd?

As clear by this ad, Scribd doesn't seem to be your typical company (which is a good thing). The boss is someone social (ie. actually wants to talk to people with real, live speech), they've got balls enough to tell you the truth ("We'll either all get rich or we all won't"), and even if Scribd is the worst failure in business history, you probably met/know some pretty cool people.

To many YC-wannbes focus on the code, the image, the company, the money but have no understanding that the best thing in a startup is always the people. If people stop taking everything so fucking serious, you might actually unclentch and have fun.

I wish there were more companies like Scribd, and yes I definently wish I worked for one (sadly I'm in the Navy). Trust me when I say if your <25, apply; don't think, just do it.


"I wish there were more companies like Scribd, and yes I definently wish I worked for one"

I echo the regret! The startup scene in Bangalore(ideas, people , funding etc) is utterly pathetic. The options are to suffer years of yucky jobs in the USA (all the while praying for the green card to come through) or work in one of the local outsource farms.


Good job Scribd. I aplaud your seriousity and maturity you are showing(even if you guys are really young), yet you can have fun also. Honestly, your page and everything you guys said, makes me think your company is a good place to work for. Unlike the Xobni video, which raised too many eyebrows, you guys seem to be say the right things, and having the right attitude.

I am not looking for a job, but if I was, I would have applied for you guys.


Yep, After reading detail and checking their site - I am tempted to apply for this job but I won't because still I am not at a stage to decide between own startup vs joining startup.


If you worked for a YC funded company, probably it could help you get funding from YC itself if you left at some point and needed it...


I wish all jobs ads were like this.


Curious: How many phone calls do you get? I find phone calls so intrusive -- I can't imagine getting calls from random hackers looking for a job :)


any advice for non-hackers trying to start up?

our rough plan is to find a hacker to make a beta/demo for us based on our design, and ride that demo into seed funding, which we'll use to hire some hackers, and ride that into a VC.

are we missing something? it's obviously a bit different than what this crowd generally does, but, do you see any fundamental flaws in this approach?


I would suggest laying out your design in html using a WYSIWYG tool like DreamWeaver. Also write down the "business rules" for each page like "user signs up here, is provisioned an account, is sent an email, and then is forwarded to the administration area"

Then hire someone off of Craigslist (or similar venue) to add a backend to it. If you could spend one or two thousand you could get enough put together to have a demo to show others.


I'd suggest finding someone who is a good coder and if he is not interested in working for you, ask him for a recommendation. I am based in Bangalore and see first hand the horrific results that occur when people pick the cheapest person/team from a webpage. The best coders don't advertise on Craigslist

if anyone on YC News wants a reccomendation of good coders from Bangalore, write to me at my email id. (No you don't have to pay me, - I have enough on my plate already- and yes you should have an idea exciting to hackers).


right now what we're doing is 1 step below that.

we're laying everything out in this program called conceptdraw, hoping we can give that document to a developer and be like "see, this is what we want."

that's a great suggestion though, we might end up having to do that.


No offense, but I would have posted almost the exact same "advice" as a sarcastic joke.

If you follow that advice, make sure that you don't make the mistake of thinking that you can build the real service on top of whatever the guy from craigslist throws together.

I don't think you'll have much luck unless you can find one or more coders who're as excited about your idea as you are, and who you respect enough to treat as equals.

I've seen a few friends take coding jobs like the one you're planning to fill, and while they got their pay, the people who hired them never truly got what they wanted.


I knew of one such instance where a bunch of MBAs outsourced their idea to a single Indian coder. He did a passable job, but the app was full of bugs. And that's when they realized that a .war file doesn't contain source code.


You can't replace knowing what the code does and if the code is good code. However you can get passable demo code from anyone. I believe the poster was talking about a small spend to get a demo not build FaceBook with millions of users.


I'd strongly recommend making at least some sort of visual wireframe, whether it's in powerpoint, on paper, in dreamweaver, etc. Chances are you have a general idea of what you want the first version to look like, and showing the developer what you have in mind will both make it easier for him and make it more likely that he'll make what you want.


i mean, we're making a very specific page by page layout in conceptdraw.

it seems people have a lot to say about this, which is great. i'll probly put up a standalone discussion thread in a bit.

we understand it's going to be damn near impossible to find someone to make a perfect, usable product. that's not what we want.

we want someone to build us an ugly, barely functioning beta, just enough to get a few users on, in closed beta, to prove that it works and such. we just want a demo.


There's a gem buried in one of the responses: "I don't think you'll have much luck unless you can find one or more coders who're as excited about your idea as you are, and who you respect enough to treat as equals."

Why would anyone competent join you on the terms that you've described? (There's a Dilbert about a company that wants to pay industry standard salaries but expects to have above average talent.)


well i mean, we'd be paying the beta developer in equity, so if they are excited and passionate about the idea, then it should be a nice fit.


I didn't get the impression that you saw that person as a founder.


I'm in the same boat... I'm a technical person (read sys admin type) but not a hacker... I've even built my own company from the ground up (a trading company so it's nothing technical) and was able to make a living...

I've a bunch of (software/service) startup ideas but no idea where to begin... Most ppl I know are not hackers so I've considered just learning how to code myself, but I don't know how long it'll take... at this point I'm just wondering what I should do...

I've even considered applying for that entry level support job xobni posted here last week (btw are you guys still hiring... ? haha... ) just so I can get some experience in an YC startup environment... since most software startup only hires hackers...


yes, we are, but that position is likely filled. please email matt.brezina at xobni


thanks... I'll keep checking your site incase you guys decide to hire more non-hackers.. :p


I would suggest trying, nay, struggling, to learn to hack for a month or two. Learn a cool new language, like Ruby (it's actually easier than, 'production languages', but it's cooler). Make an effort to build things yourself. Put enough effort into the technical side so that you might be able to notice technical brilliance for yourself, and so that you can make informed decisions regarding hiring and project directions.


If you are interested in learning to program, then by all means, find a language that suits you and begin working on problems you want to solve. If you are interested in programming only insofar as it facilitates building your company, attempting to learn to program will be an exercise in frustration. Working out the details of a great idea is difficult enough in and of itself, let alone trying to do so using languages or technologies that you aren't comfortable with.


Forget about learning to code, there are experts out there that will do it better than you ever could. And they don't have to cost much money by the way. The problem is how you decide who to go with. I still recommend personal contact rather than long distance Internet...

At FairSoftware.net, we are working on a solution for your problem. Just hold your breath for a few more months, thanks :-)


What YC companies merged to make Scribd?


Hulist, Hackerarchy and JobBook are the official YC companies to merge into Scribd. Tricloud and Nanobeep were great YC applicant companies that joined us, and Buzzshout was a non-YC but very cool company whose founder is now with us.


It doesn't seem honest to say that Hulist+Hackerarchy+JobBook=Scribd. That's like saying 0+0+0=1. ;-)


The whole is more than the sum of its parts?

Or you should be casting to float ;)


Of course. You miss my meaning. Scribd = 1 (ie. cool company doing good things), and 0's being unsuccessful attempts. We're allowed unsuccessful attempts. I sure have a couple under my belt. ;-)

I understand what point the Scribds' are trying to make, but knowing their history, I just thought I'd call them out on their white lie.


6 companies for 8 people? wow


I think you people are diluting the meaning of company. When I was 6 I used to draw things and write down Copyright 1991 My Name, Inc. It was only a few more years that I realize, just cause I can write down a company name does not a company make.


Well, if they were YC applicants they probably weren't companies as YC seem to prefer groups that are not already incorporated. I guess it's more like people with 6 different product ideas (and names) got together to do Scribd then saying 6 companies merged.


Sounded like 8 kids with varying ideas of a project, I can't even fathom what those names mean, now work together at a funded company.


I really wanted to mod this +1, Funny and remembered this isn't slashdot.

But to be fair, I used to do the same.


i cant believe you posted your cell #.

get ready to change your number.


this isn't justin.tv


I don't think Scribd has much of a chance against the Open Library:

http://www.openlibrary.org/


Great point - check out the traffic comparison on Alexa: http://tinyurl.com/2mdocw

Not a chance ;)


We all know Alexa is useless:

http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/08/13/alexa-says-youtube-is-n...

The chart you mention just shows that Open Library users have enough common sense not to install that crappy spyware Alexa toolbar.


Good point.

Apparently they also have enough common sense to prevent their ISP's from logging their traffic and sending it to compete.com ;)

http://tinyurl.com/2rvfxu


> PG admits that with so many applicants, the choice becomes increasingly arbitrary.

No no no -- PG was very insistent that YC's selection process is specifically NOT arbitrary. Where do you find anything he said to the contrary?


I think the phrase is 'fraught with error'.




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