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The EU is the member states. The distinction is purely in your head.




I think this is a bit unfair. The EU is a combination of the member states and institutions: the European Commission, the European Parliament, the European Council and the Council of the European Union. These bodies are made up of either people elected directly by EU citizens or by politicians from EU member countries, not dissimilar to how the federal government in the US is made up of either people elected directly by US citizens or by politicians from US member states.

And just as it would be unfair to describe the US as only its member states, I believe it is unfair to describe the EU as only its member countries.


The EU at its very core is international contracts between member states. All that the EU is is contracts between states. Thus, the EU itself is nothing but the member states acting from their sovereignty.

From my perspective, the main structural difference between the EU and the US is that it's legal for a member country to leave the EU but illegal for a member state to leave the US.

This is a very significant difference and means that the EU is a consensual partnership between countries while the US is not. Still, if the US instituted a legal way for a member state to secede, I do not think it would be fair to call the US "only contracts between states"; I think it would be warranted to view the federal government as its own political entity which is more than just the sum of its member states.

Do you agree with my view of this hypothetical alternative US? If yes: what is the essential difference between that and the EU which makes one a political entity of its own right while the other is "just contracts between countries"? If no: why?


The difference is, imo, the Constitution.

Had the Treaty establishing a Constitution for Europe succeeded, I would agree with your point.

Since it hasn't, it's all just a bunch of treaties between countries. Yes, there is European politican entities. But they all just exist by the power of the member states instituting them. They are not (yet?) established as powers in their own right.


There is a huge, crucial, and obvious difference here (the EU is made of member states but a member state's sovereignty is not the same as the "EU sovereignty", very obviously), but if you can't see it (or refuse to) after what I already wrote then I am afraid that I don't have the energy to even attempt to discuss this with you...

The EU is nothing more but the sum of its member states. The Venn diagram is a circle.

The sovereignty of the EU is the sum of the sovereignty of its member states.




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