As a European I never understood this American way of labeling yourself after your supposed heritage. Nothing italian about "italian americans" and nothing african about "african american". Sure, there are maybe traces of the original culture in the respective subculture and we like to mingle with people who are like us. And for that labels like these help. But this heritage is so far gone that it really doesn't matter anymore. I also understand that it describes a new culture, but by using the "old" names it puts a claim on something it just can't.
I also don't get this:
“Whenever I go to Africa, I feel like a person with a legitimate place to stand on this earth. This is the name for all the feelings I’ve had all these years.”
And the "return to africa" thingy (or the new return to europe thingy). Africa is a big ass continent and there is really no cultural homogeneity. They never ever stepped foot on african, italian or german soil before. You're all american, period. This feels like self-segregating. A culture isn't something you can just consume or put on yourself.
PS: I'm very understanding of the issue that you want to cling to some roots. But I don't like that it's becoming a "I vs them" thing and that it gets consumed and is used for projection.
I completely agree with the "You're all American, period" sentiment, but I suspect you haven't had the lovely experience of being asked "Where are you from" and have your <American location> repeatedly not accepted, usually by the phrase "No, where are you really from," as if it's entirely impossible for me to have been born here.
Were I white, the first question would be unlikely to be asked in the first place, its answer automatically accepted, and if the enquirer had poor language skills, it would immediately be qualified with "I meant, What's your heritage" or "Where is your family from."
There may be self segregation but some are doing the segregation for us.
That's wild to me. Wouldn't almost all of black americans that didn't immigrate after abolishment of slavery not know their roots anyhow because it hasn't been tracked? (Or would you? Now I'm curious!) Making this an absolute asshole question?
I'll never understand why there's so much distinction between black and white (literally) culturally in the US. I always find it weird when people comment things like "white people do this" and "black people stuff". I get the overall differences in lifestyle and (sub-) culture, but that people feel like they need to differentiate is wild after all these years. I mean, sure, complex story and stuff, but still.
I'm option 3: Asian. In this context, Black Americans are assumed just as American as whites because their ancestry was forcibly removed from them. All Asians are assumed to be immigrants -- forgetting, of course!, that all White people were also immigrants. I can pretty much guarantee you, even if their family came to the US 175 years ago, an Asian American will still get asked "Where are you really from".
The US has a pretty unpleasant history of doing especially terrible things to minorities who start to succeed, and continues to do bad things to minorities in both subtle and unsubtle ways. The concept of Asians as the "model minority" is actually a way of pitting minorities against each other rather than being a compliment (e.g. your brother is such a good person, why aren't you?).
>I also understand that it describes a new culture, but by using the "old" names it puts a claim on something it just can't.
Italians from 2025 have as little to do with their Italian great grandparents from 1800 as Italians Americans with the same great grandparents. Clothes, habits, values, food, you name it.
>I'm very understanding of the issue that you want to cling to some roots.
Thank you for understanding but it is not clinging to roots, it is about recongizing existing roots. Humans do weird stuff all the time, many times that weird stuff can be understood by looking at who raise you, and who raised them, and so on.
>But this heritage is so far gone that it really doesn't matter anymore.
Kindly, that is not for you to say.
>But I don't like that it's becoming a "I vs them"
> Italians from 2025 have as little to do with their Italian great grandparents from 1800 as Italians Americans with the same great grandparents. Clothes, habits, values, food, you name it.
They are italians though because ... they live in italy and they are proper italians. Modern italian americans are american descendants of emigrants. It's pretty funny that I get pushback for the italian american part and none for the african american, which I'd expect tbh. You can't just say "oh italian culture changed as well".
Just because your grandparents came from italy doesn't make you italian. There's so much mixing going on and all, but you can't just claim a label like that. It's a new culture and I'm saying that by clinging to the root and trying to define yourself that way is not really accurate. I dislike the "my family has italian roots so I can claim that I'm italian" thing.
PS: the best meatballs and pasta I've ever had was in Phoenix. I don't think this is a dish you get in italy. Pretty funny how that works.
The unification of Italy happened in the 1860s, the concept of "proper italian" is quite new, as well the concept of a single language for the Italian land.
> Just because your grandparents came from italy doesn't make you italian.
Italian consitution says otherwise.
> the best meatballs and pasta I've ever had was in Phoenix
The inclusion of tomatoes in italian cuisine is quite recent, many italians emigrated to americas before mainland italians adopted tomatoes.
> I dislike the "my family has italian roots so I can claim that I'm italian" thing.
You dislike it, and you wish to spend your precious time focused on what you dislike and trying to convince other people to dislike it.
As a European you're an outsider looking in, telling us what our American experiences are.
Consider that your POV might not be objective fact.
Edit: As one counterpoint fact, in my city there are 2nd-generation Italian-Americans who speak English with an accent. Born in American hospitals, raised in our public schools, and don't have the local American accent. "There's nothing Italian about them" is overreaching.
I have "italian american" and "german american" family. And my POV is of course not objective, that's a weird thing to say. It's my opinion, what else?
The Sopranos has an episode more or less about this, Commendatori. It's basically the glorified crew visiting their "home" in Italy and being your run-of-the-mill american tourists. Some interesting stuff is Paulie asking for pasta and red sauce because he doesn't like the fancy seafood he's been served, and Tony complaining about "lots of fish" to Carm over the phone.
When they get home they immediately resume their LARP and say they felt "right at home" lmao
The sopranos is a fictional dramatized soap opera though, made for a primarily American audience who are already vaguely aware of the "clash" between Italian Americans and Italians.
My "greek" side of my (american) family goes to Greece 2x a year for weeks, speaks greek at home, primarily eat a mediteranean diet etc. When I think of them, I think of "my greek family", and it certainly isn't some vanity thing.
This only makes sense if you think heritage is like a dusting of snow that melts when one comes in from the cold, but these people carried their heritage with them. Maybe "Italian" isn't quite the right word, anymore, but that doesn't mean they've been planed flat by the Lathe of Heaven.
I also don't get this: “Whenever I go to Africa, I feel like a person with a legitimate place to stand on this earth. This is the name for all the feelings I’ve had all these years.”
And the "return to africa" thingy (or the new return to europe thingy). Africa is a big ass continent and there is really no cultural homogeneity. They never ever stepped foot on african, italian or german soil before. You're all american, period. This feels like self-segregating. A culture isn't something you can just consume or put on yourself.
PS: I'm very understanding of the issue that you want to cling to some roots. But I don't like that it's becoming a "I vs them" thing and that it gets consumed and is used for projection.