This is certainly true: the do not hide nastiness, they simply make dealing with the db more (much more) nasty.
I mean: ORMs are now well known to "make the easy queries slightly more easy, while making intermediate queries really hard and complex queries impossible". So for anything slightly complex you still need to break out of your ORM to... yes... plain old SQL.
I think the are of ORMs is over. It simply did not deliver.
If a book on SQL is --say-- 100 pages, a book on Hibernate is 400 pages. So much to learn just to make the easy queries slightly easier to type? Just not worth it. You still need to know SQL if you use an ORM!
I prefer jooq any day over ORMs. And dont get me started over what tools like Hasuna have to offer.
There are also some languages (forgot the names) that are SQL-done-right. Select in the back, more type safe, more logic, more in the same steps as the query gets executed. These need to be adopted by PG and MySQL and we're good to go. (IMHO)
They do, though. Some of the problems Codd speaks of are not made possible in the high level language. Depends on implementation, of course, but as a rule.
I mean, think about it: If you were building an ORM, why would you make the very same design mistakes?
That's not to say you won't make all kinds of your own design mistakes (there is no ORM that isn't full of design mistakes), but I mean why make the design mistakes that are already well studied and you know to avoid?
This is certainly true: the do not hide nastiness, they simply make dealing with the db more (much more) nasty.
I mean: ORMs are now well known to "make the easy queries slightly more easy, while making intermediate queries really hard and complex queries impossible". So for anything slightly complex you still need to break out of your ORM to... yes... plain old SQL.
I think the are of ORMs is over. It simply did not deliver.
If a book on SQL is --say-- 100 pages, a book on Hibernate is 400 pages. So much to learn just to make the easy queries slightly easier to type? Just not worth it. You still need to know SQL if you use an ORM!
I prefer jooq any day over ORMs. And dont get me started over what tools like Hasuna have to offer.
There are also some languages (forgot the names) that are SQL-done-right. Select in the back, more type safe, more logic, more in the same steps as the query gets executed. These need to be adopted by PG and MySQL and we're good to go. (IMHO)
https://www.jooq.org/
https://hasura.io/