> >You have given nothing to support the argument that treating someone as subservient based on gender 'ultimately does us good.'
> I never said this. Quote me where I said this, or I will be forced to regard you as a liar.
You said, in the context of the OP's complaint about "'subtle' sexism":
> We need to distinguish between small harms that ultimately do us good and large harms that are sending society on a destructive course.
If you weren't arguing the poster's issue with subtle sexism as was one of those small harms then you've just been going on a random tangent.
If someone accuses you of saying something you didn't mean, it's not necessarily because they are lying or making things up. It could be a misunderstanding, a misinterpretation or a lack of clarification on either side. Further, if someone summarizes or distills your argument and cannot source that summary verbatim, that also doesn't mean it's a lie or inaccurate.
> And I never said "small issues don't matter". Why make things up?
You said this:
> There are much bigger, structural problems to worry about right now. It's like we're on a boat with a hole in the bottom and every interest group is complaining that their feet are getting wetter than all the others.
which implies that people shouldn't be complaining about their feet getting wet because there's a bigger issue. It very much implies that you think small issues should be ignored in favor of the large issues.
Why is it wrong to ask for people to attempt to refrain from being subtly sexist? Is it really that difficult of a thing to do?
Thank you for your clarifications. I'm glad we've been able to get past the quibbles.
I don't think smaller issues should be ignored. Continuing my metaphor, I don't think the flu should be ignored. It is a health problem that must be addressed. But for most healthy individuals it is properly addressed by sleep, fluids and relaxation. Sometimes people get it badly and theuy need further treatment. But by stuffing everyone with antibiotics to prevent the mere possibility of pneumonia or even bronchitis, we are causing secondary problems such as antibiotic resistance. Similarly, whenever we try to over-think human interaction we grow the beast of rationalistic meddling.
Trying to eliminate the flu would be foolish. Stuffing people with antibiotics is foolish. I am not making a dogmatic statement about how all small problems are irrelevant. I am expressing frustration with more complaints over increasingly marginal grievances. It points to a lack of character and a mindless quest to maximise some sense of fairness that for me often lacks authenticity. If we become touchy about small issues we will lose all resilience and perspective.
Leaving aside despicable comments about breasts and so forth that we can easily address through instant reprimand, I don't think being asked to do the notes in a meeting or organise a potluck represents subservience. It is just as stupid as complaining about a request for "a few strong men" to help move some things. Or the stupid outrages over "mrs" versus "ms". People are so sensitive. Raise your objection or get on with it.
I'm not saying the poster is a bad person here. I don't think it's wrong to make this post. Nor would I think it's wrong for someone to complain about any number of other trivial things. But it does point to a sense of entitlement and lack of resilience. I don't like that, and I think we should be working against that trend, not with it.
> >You have given nothing to support the argument that treating someone as subservient based on gender 'ultimately does us good.'
> I never said this. Quote me where I said this, or I will be forced to regard you as a liar.
You said, in the context of the OP's complaint about "'subtle' sexism":
> We need to distinguish between small harms that ultimately do us good and large harms that are sending society on a destructive course.
If you weren't arguing the poster's issue with subtle sexism as was one of those small harms then you've just been going on a random tangent.
If someone accuses you of saying something you didn't mean, it's not necessarily because they are lying or making things up. It could be a misunderstanding, a misinterpretation or a lack of clarification on either side. Further, if someone summarizes or distills your argument and cannot source that summary verbatim, that also doesn't mean it's a lie or inaccurate.
> And I never said "small issues don't matter". Why make things up?
You said this:
> There are much bigger, structural problems to worry about right now. It's like we're on a boat with a hole in the bottom and every interest group is complaining that their feet are getting wetter than all the others.
which implies that people shouldn't be complaining about their feet getting wet because there's a bigger issue. It very much implies that you think small issues should be ignored in favor of the large issues.
Why is it wrong to ask for people to attempt to refrain from being subtly sexist? Is it really that difficult of a thing to do?