> My impression is that the second group is much much more prevalent, but also seen as problematic by the first group. The first group is much more extreme, and has much more "interesting" talking points, so it is significantly over-represented in online discussions and media.
My impression is that extreme opinions are mostly from two subgroups of the second group:
- Those who believe that gender is essentially defined by physical characteristics
- Those who believe that gender is essentially defined by social characteristics.
Their inability (or unwillingness) to more deeply consider the concepts of "men"/"women" place them in conflict with each other because each of them want to use a different concept, and neither of them are open to exploring different ones.
The only way I can see this being resolved is by taking an attitude more similar to first group.
True, a little bit of philosophy can be a dangerous thing, since it can lead to a shallow kind of idealism that can easily fall into extremism at all.
However, I believe that the general attitude of the trans community is relatively moderate and easy to accept:
1. Trans people should be able to get the kinds of treatment they need (from therapy all the way to aesthetic surgery), in cooperation with their doctors. Children should be allowed to get some treatment, and their parents should be involved (with some complexity when the parents' bigotry may interfere with the best interest of the child).
2. Other people shouldn't be allowed to ostracize one for being trans, and should seek to accommodate them (such as not referring to them with the wrong pronouns or name); accidental use is easily forgiven, but intentional misgendering is clearly malicious; the problem of "non-passing" trans people complicates this somewhat
3. Trans people should be allowed to use the amenities that correspond to their gender, which will, in the vast majority of circumstances, correspond to their gender presentation; "non-passing" trans people complicate this, as does participation in competitive sports
However, I believe trying to modify society to dispense with the concepts man & woman, or to avoid inoculating them in children - as would be natural if we take the position of the first group too seriously - is way beyond what most people would agree with.
Of course, extreme positions such as trans-medicalists/truscum or people insisting everyone "shares their pronouns" and such are somewhat significant sub-groups, as are people who insist that children should be able to just take hormones without any supervision from doctors or parents if they really think it's right for them (I've seen this exact position on HN before). But while they exist, I think they are still loud minorities, even within the relatively small trans community.
My impression is that extreme opinions are mostly from two subgroups of the second group:
- Those who believe that gender is essentially defined by physical characteristics
- Those who believe that gender is essentially defined by social characteristics.
Their inability (or unwillingness) to more deeply consider the concepts of "men"/"women" place them in conflict with each other because each of them want to use a different concept, and neither of them are open to exploring different ones.
The only way I can see this being resolved is by taking an attitude more similar to first group.