For example, animal cruelty. Over time people have been choosing to abuse animals less and less, and today many societies have an increasing number of laws protecting animals.
There are lots of other examples. Domestic violence against a spouse, and violence against children, are things that have changed a lot. Things that were once considered normal, like marital rape or beating a misbehaving child, are now socially unacceptable in many societies.
You are right that history tends towards more freedom. But also towards being more moral (which can mean less freedom in a technical sense). Eating less meat would be an example of that, and it is happening today, just slowly. If more of us make the effort, we can speed it up and help save the planet. It really is a choice each of us can make right now!
You are also right that we don't need to just wait on personal choices. That might not be enough. We can also get governments to subsidize plant-based food to make it cheaper than meat, for example.
Eating less meat is not "more moral" it's just what you want people to do.
It's always the same thing, when a post is about the environment the vegans come in and start telling everyone to stop eating meat to save the planet.
But somehow I don't see vegans ever telling people to drive less, walk more, wash their clothes by hand, not throw out electronic devices just to get new ones etc etc, it's just eating meat that you want them to stop doing. Yet, the cause of climate change, and its main driver, is burning fossil fuels, not farming. 3/4s of carbon emissions come from burning fossil fuels for enegry production in sectors other than agriculture:
But when vegans are concerned about the environment it's always eating less meat they tell others to do, not burn less fossil fuels. Why? Why is it more urgent to stop 1/4 of the damage to the environment that 3/4s?
It's not more urgent, it's just your ideology that says it's more important to eat less meat than stop climate change.
I wish that HN had clear guidelines against trying to prosyletise people into somebody's political, or metaphysical beliefs.
> It's always the same thing, when a post is about the environment the vegans come in and start telling everyone to stop eating meat to save the planet.
In both of my comments above I didn't ask people to stop eating meat. Just to eat less of it.
> But somehow I don't see vegans ever telling people to drive less, walk more, wash their clothes by hand, not throw out electronic devices just to get new ones etc etc
I and most vegans I know do most of the above. (I'd also add "fly less" to the list, that one has a big impact!)
You are right, the 1/4 is not more urgent than the 3/4. (But let's make progress on all of it!)
Overall, I get that you've encountered some annoying vegans. Some are vocal and toxic. But please don't judge us by that small group. And regardless of what you think of vegans, that's just the messenger, while the message that eating less meat helps the planet is true regardless.
Yes, you didn't tell people not to eat meat "in both of your comments above" (nice hedge, I'll look at your comment history later) but you still only preach about eating less meat and not doing anything else to combat climate change.
That behaviour, which is typical among vegans, vocal, toxic, or whatever, is dangerous and destructive because it detracts from the true source of climate change: burning fossil fuels. Not one of you, ever, never, will start talking about the environment by saying that "3/4s of carbon emissions come from sectors other than farming, but..." or something like that.
Oh no. You folks jump straight into the meat business. And you only comment about the environment when there's a chance to tell people not to eat meat. Because you dont' really care about the environment. All you care about is that people don't eat meat.
And "eat less meat" is just one step towards that. It's not about saving the environment, it's about getting everyone to go vegan.
It's your ideology and you're here to promote it. It's like the Hare Krishna. You care about nothing else but meat and getting people off it. No intelligent discussion, no curiosity, no nothing except "Go Vegan! Now!".
There are lots of other examples. Domestic violence against a spouse, and violence against children, are things that have changed a lot. Things that were once considered normal, like marital rape or beating a misbehaving child, are now socially unacceptable in many societies.
You are right that history tends towards more freedom. But also towards being more moral (which can mean less freedom in a technical sense). Eating less meat would be an example of that, and it is happening today, just slowly. If more of us make the effort, we can speed it up and help save the planet. It really is a choice each of us can make right now!
You are also right that we don't need to just wait on personal choices. That might not be enough. We can also get governments to subsidize plant-based food to make it cheaper than meat, for example.