I also have a Xeon laptop. (45w TDP E3-1505m v6 in a dell precision).
Xeons are not magically faster than their i7/i9 counterparts (mine being not faster than a i7-7820HQ which is its contemporary flagship high performance mobile CPU). In fact they can be slower because the emphasis is on correctness and multi core, not usually single thread performance.
Xeons are also slower than a modern AMD chip which also can have more cores.
5x is a performance metric that doesn’t match up. Unless you have a desktop class 145w/165w cpu, in which case it’s not going to get 9hrs of battery unless you’re not actually touching the CPU. More like 30 minutes of heavy use on the largest battery legally allowed in laptops.
Edit: I just took a quick snoop on geek bench and found a modern xeon w in the largest dell precision laptop available:
Synthetic scores aren’t everything, but I’m hard pressed seeing how you can get 5x performance out of a chip that scores almost exactly half. Even with hardware accelerations like AVX512 (which causes a cpu to get so hot it throttles below baseline even on servers with more than adequate cooling.)
My experience as well. I, too, have a dell precision with a 8 core xeon part, and while it looks decent its heavy and not noticeably faster than the m1 I replaced it with when it came out. The xeon would get hot and noisy when running teams or hangouts. It sits in my drawer for the last year or so.
M1 does not. Code compile is about as fast. Battery lasts a 3 day business trip or a hackaton without charging. I never heard its fan. I dont care much about brands, but lightweight, fast enough and well built M1 is praiseworthy. I am not getting the pro or max, as the benefits for me as a software dev are probably not worth the extra weight and power consumption.
Citation please on “the Xeon dell smokes the M1 air”, geek bench says the M1 air can be twice as fast.
All other things being equal: your statement is simply not true.
I just checked and I can’t find a mobile Xeon with a greater TDP than 45w, so you’re stuck with that geek bench score because that’s essentially as good as it gets for a modern mobile Xeon.
Xeons, fwiw, are just higher binned i7s and i9s with features still enabled. The reason they can be slower than i7s and i9s is that the memory controller has to do more work and the way Intel does multi-core (essentially a ring bus) doesn’t scale gracefully always.
All things are not equal though. Geekbench includes many things that run on the GPU - video encoding and playback, rendering web pages - heck even your window manager mostly uses the GPU. The Dell has low power low performance GPU. To use the second one - an NVIDIA RTX, which is literally the fastest thing you can put in a laptop. You have to explicitly tell your OS to use that GPU for a program - it defaults to the low power one.
In summary, you are full of crap if you think an untuned blind geekbench score is what you're going by - an aggregation of a whole bunch of tests, using defaults. My statement is true, as I kick off the same data processing script on my laptop and it finishes it over lunch, while my coworker kicks it off overnight.
> Xeon with a greater TDP than 45w
yes, the Xeon W-11955M in the Dell is 45W. Now add the RTX GPU - which coincidentally will be doing most of the work. Unless you're running the geekbench test you're referring to, to purposely gimp the results. That Intel integrated graphics chip uses almost no power.
go process a large dataset and do some calculations on it. Run a bunch of VMs while you're doing it to - let's say 3. Give each one 32G of memory. Better be ECC memory too, or your data won't be reliable. Maybe in about 5 years when apple catches up to the current pro laptops, you'll be able to. This is why all the m1 comparisons they do is to previous generation intel chips in their old laptops. which have always been slow. apple has always used outdated hardware, in everything they've ever made.
I guarantee you, an M1 is about as fast as your "6 core xeon" laptop. M1 Pro/Max will steamroll it. You can look at Cinebench, LLVM compile, Java benchmarks, etc. You're completely delusional claiming your laptop is 5x faster in CPU. Mocking a "phone CPU" when the A15 is actually faster than a 5950X in single core performance shows you don't know what you're talking about.
You probably wouldn’t have gotten downvoted as much if people hadn’t (ironically?) read the part you said they wouldn’t read :p And I want to mention that I agree with you about apple not selling to pros very well over the past 6 years.
Your laptop is definitely very capable. But it’s barely a laptop. Why not build out a proper desktop? This precision would be a pain in the ass to carry around for most people, especially travel. Dell made sacrifices to get that kind of power: size, cooling, and battery life. Those are actually meaningful things when it comes to a laptop for most people, even pros.
I think the fact that you’re even mentioning a MacBook <em>air</em> in the same sentence is very good for the Air. The M1 hasn’t really been marketed to the pro market until the recent release.
Also, 5x faster at what? The M1 is about the same performance as a W-11855M at single core cinebench, and only 25% slower at multicore. So comparison to the M1 pro/max is not very promising for the Xeon chip.
Engineers in the field, on oil rigs, doing CAD, Simulations etc. need huge heavy desktop replacement laptops. The licensing cost for the software they use is usually above 100_000$, and only certified for RHEL or Windows.
Even at 8k$ the laptop is often below 5% of the budget.
it's because you're using "geekbench" for your numbers. which is a combined number of misleading stats. it includes things like "encoding video" and "rendering html" - things that the m1 has specific optimizations for, which in the real world are done by the NVIDIA RTX on my Dell, with the CPU sitting at under 1% utilization. Yes, if you offload these tasks, which in the real world don't use the CPU at all, and run it on a CPU with special accelerators for these useless tasks, the CPU designed specifically to game "geekbench" metrics will win. In the real world, I got a multi-gig dataset I need to process and do calculations on. Go put a database on the M1 and see if it beats a xeon. Or for an easier test, just load up excel with lots of functions and lots of calculated rows and columns. Run that while running a couple of VMs for virtual appliances on your laptop too (128GB ECC RAM helps with that).
You're literally here saying the M1 is going to replace a server chip. Newsflash - the M1 doesn't even run any of the needed code, because it's arm code - a small niche.
in fact, i'm not sure you can even order a xeon precision w/o ecc ram. but i'm not here to do your research for you for things you can look up in a minute. you're the one that claimed a xeon precision doesn't come w/ ecc ram, without even googling it.
my laptop is a 7660. I also have an i7 5560, and a latitude 7410 w/ an I7. It's what work gives me for work - and yes, I use all 3 since we went full remote. For "pro" work. The M1 laptop is comparable to my 7410 - which I use to play online games and chromecast videos. Not any real work. It's a kids toy compared to my 7660.
since you seem to be lost here on this tech site, instead of hanging out on reddit with your peers: all xeon CPUs support ECC ram. If you want you can go on ebay, buy ECC ram, and put it in any Xeon system. Or, you know, just order it w/ ECC ram from Dell.
>It is common for Dell Precisions to ship with Xeons and not ECC ram.
correct. because most come with 16 or 32GB or RAM, and are the low end of Dell's pro line. Once you get a lot of RAM, like 64 or 128GB, and you're crunching numbers and running VMs, your chances of a memory error go up dramatically. Which is why you need ECC RAM. Which has zero to do with your post that I was replying to, claiming precisions don't have ecc ram. now find me an m1 laptop with 128GB of ECC RAM. Because you're right - "Enough" strawman astroturfing from you.
The M1 is a Latitude competitor - not a Precision competitor. Apple's "pro" line is considered mid-tier from other vendors. Their tests showing it beats xeons are comparing xeons released 2 years ago, that for some reason they used in their apple laptops. Because Apple has always used outdated CPUs compared to everyone else.
> since you seem to be lost here on this tech site, instead of hanging out on reddit with your peers
This kind of behavior makes you seem much more lost here on HN than the guy you're replying to. And looking at your downvoted and flagged posts all over the place, HN seems to agree.
I don’t need to google it when I own such a system.
My precision did not ship with ECC ram.
ECC also needs to be supported by the motherboard; all AMD Ryzen chips have ECC enabled but due to limited motherboard support: many are not able to effectively use ECC.
If you have the time could you share the output of `sudo dmidecode —type 17`?
you're looking at geekbench scores that do a bunch of GPU-offloaded stuff. and they used the low power integrated graphics, not the NVIDIA RTX in their tests - you have to explicitly select the discreet GPU for a process to use, as it defaults to the low power. so, something that doesn't even look like a mistake of taking the defaults - something that looks like deliberately lying to game the numbers.
Yup. I, too, call BS on that. I do own a precision laptop with a 8 core xeon and this thing is heavy, noisy and can't work on battery for more than 2hrs under normal workload.
Just for fun, I looked up the most expensive Dell Precision Xeon laptop, which seems to be the Precision 7760 with a Xeon W-11955M.
With a GeekBench score of 1647 ST/9650 MT, this $5377.88 machine is just a bit faster than the passively cooled $999 MacBook Air with 1744 ST/7600 MT. The MacBook Pro 14" 10 core is better than the Dell Xeon in about every way, performance, price, performance per watt, etc.
This is the xeon that's in the laptop. the geekbench score is base on running tests on the low power integrated graphics instead of the discreet NVIDIA RTX GPU. the numbers you idiots keep quoting are completely bogus. anywise losers, enjoy your apples, i got real work to do.
I run about 50k worth of software licenses on the laptop and generate millions in revenue per quarter with it. That's why it's a pro laptop, and I'm sure my company paid about double your number after you add in dell's pro support plus. Pro laptop for pro work. You're a kid who wants toys, but wants to say you're using professional equipment. I got something that's like the pro mac laptop. work gave that to me too for secondary tasks. it's called a dell latitude. it runs the latest i7 and no ecc memory. great for chromecasting porn and playing games in the browser, 13 hours of battery unlike the precision's 9, and much lighter. they just don't call it a pro.
