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You can just change keyboard settings in any OS? The same way you change from QWERTY to DVORAK you can change to Cyrillic or... But every APL programmer just uses something like deadkeys, typing e.g. ` before another key like `[ becomes ← or `$ becomes ⍋. The same are largely used for BQN too. Every tutorial teaches how to type explicitly e.g. https://tryapl.org/

If you insist on looking at your keyboard, you can also buy stickers for like $10.


Yeah, I changed the keyboard settings in my OS (Win at the time) a few times, but it was a pain to have to remember the key layouts even with tutorials. I like the idea of using stickers at a lower price which is more reasonable. I always wondered why PC engineers did not design Chameleon keyboards with keys that can change their key-designation (LED key shape) based on OS usage per region. I'm sure it's partly due to money. I mean who would not like to have a keyboard that lights up different keys depending on the language you use. There just needs to be a universal key design agreed upon that can accommodate this type of keyboard design.

Don't get me wrong. I like the idea of a compact language and may reconsider APL in the future if, my financial luck changes :)


There are derivatives of APL, e.g. J, which replace the symbols with ASCII characters, to avoid the keyboard problem:

https://www.jsoftware.com/#/README

I actually prefer a hybrid solution, i.e. using a part of the original APL symbols, which are now provided by Unicode, so you can map them on any standard keyboard as you please, while other symbols are replaced by keywords.

The reason is that a part of the original APL symbols make sense and are useful, because they are extensions of the traditional mathematical notation, while some other symbols, e.g. those used for trigonometric functions, are arbitrary and had only the purpose to make the text somewhat shorter and simplify the parsing of the language at a very early time, when the available resources were very scarce, and this does not matter today any more.


That gives me the idea of making a sort of transpiler for it as a side project. Maybe I will.

Thank you for the link :)


Can y’all give me an invite

Lobste.rs is against AI in a pretty fanatical way and most posts have little to no discussion, also good luck accessing them if you use Brave Browser

https://janet-lang.org is already Clojure without the JVM


I feel like calling Janet "A Clojure" is doing both a disservice. It's more like a "Clojure-like but smaller on purpose" programming language, and it's also (self-described) for "exploratory programming, scripting, and fun side projects" rather than Clojure's intended target audience.

Nothing wrong with that, having different target audiences makes sense and is probably preferable, but Janet is more than just "Clojure without the JVM" much like C# is more than just "Java without the JVM".


Yes, clojure-like is good


Really disappointing to only learn this after a decade, but on Linux changing from 60hz to 40hz decreased my power draw by 40% in the last hour since reading this comment.


You can put up a plant in 5 years without erroneous regulation.


Do you have some examples of that in the last decades?


China's been building dozens of them, some going up in 4 years. It's very easy to google this. https://www.reddit.com/r/nuclear/comments/1hsvl0w/chinese_re...


Going up from what date exactly? Construction start is when you already have all plans approved, permitted and financed, so 4 years from construction start is far from "putting up a plant in 5 years". So, some examples for 5 years all in?


Barakah nuclear power plant in the United Arab Emirates. Build by Korea Electric Power Corporation (KEPCO).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barakah_nuclear_power_plant

Nameplate capacity 5600 MW

Construction began

Unit 1: 19 July 2012

Unit 2: 16 April 2013

Unit 3: 24 September 2014

Unit 4: 30 July 2015

Commission date

Unit 1: 3 August 2020

Unit 2: 14 September 2021

Unit 3: 10 October 2022

Unit 4: 23 March 2024


That's 8-9 years of construction only.


There is a trick, you can multiple build simultaneously. Or better with a slight delay, so that construction crews (which do separate phases of construction) can move between projects and use experience gained in one build in another build.

Nuclear construction requires highly skilled workers doing very high quality work. One of the biggest problems with nuclear construction in U.S. and Europe is that last significant builds have been done around 1985, companies doing nuclear construction closed or moved to other products, or moved to maintenance, upgrades of power plants.

https://www.worldnuclearreport.org/reactors.html


> There is a trick, you can multiple build simultaneously.

That trick does not work for smaller countries which can't afford/don't need to build a big number of reactors. Or you have to outsource to a foreign builder which does not seem to be a best idea in today's world.

Anyway, the original claim was "You can put up a plant in 5 years without erroneous regulation". It's simply not possible to do that. If you depend on continuous availability of highly skilled workers, you also have to account for their (initial and continuous) training. In addition you also have to maintain the staff which does the planning and permitting.


I second this, Tcl is a lovely language in general and quite lisp like. One of the nicest and most unexpected experiences was learning it last year. Tk is then trivial from Tcl, with nice native GUIs being 15 mins away.


Yes indeed, I concur completely with your comments. I've used Tcl/Tk for a few decades and for a long time enjoyed it's Lisp-like character. Of all GUI toolkits Tk is by far the best thought out, no wonder it's been adopted by a number of other languages.

Tcl does have a few disadvantages, for one the lack of distinction between string and list types makes certain programs hard to write. Also the absence of lexical environment for the apply command requires awkward workarounds. Many Tcl users dislike expr syntax.

Warts notwithstanding, Tcl has allowed me to be very productive. Over the years it's been steadily improved, and yet remains mostly compatible with code written even decades ago. That's a rare accomplishment in the programming universe.



The biggest boon is that it's a development target for making TUIs etc. App developers get the most benefit out of it.


> front page

Nice! Looks like I should have rushed the interview. :D


Indeed, Arc's been running on Common Lisp for a while now!


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