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That's just throwing the baby out with the bath water. In my experience, the best kind of online interactions are those where people don't have to be limited by what their offline ID is.

Why would anyone want any kind of non-politician-approved interaction? Are you a traitor or a paedophile? In fact give me all your chat history and let's go through it, because I have no idea what we'd even approve.

(dixit every European government)

https://fightchatcontrol.eu/

Oh and all your private photos too. Think of the children! (and let's NOT discuss that when it comes to child abuse in Europe BY FAR the biggest culprits are European government employees. School teachers, and people in youth services. That's >90% of all child abusers in the EU. The youth services part of that would be the EXACT individuals screaming about thinking of the children. Don't worry. They've put rules in the Chat Control legislation protecting themselves from ... well the law)


This. I think differently about code that I write compared to code that I only read. Every character, every symbol, every expression that I write is guaranteed to have my full attention for at least a short moment and I know why it is supposed to be there. There is meaning to everything that I write. A LLM just tries to come up with a plausibly-looking piece of code. There is no meaning in that.

Given how long people have stuck with Internet Explorer, I don't think this is a good example.

Internet Explorer doesn't exist anymore!

took long enough

There's a difference between document-based web sites like this one and web applications. The potential for web applications has mostly emerged as a side effect of the introduction of JavaScript. Back then, JavaScript was supposed to only add minor enhancements to web sites.

Well... Right here on the the very first website Tim Berners-Lee talks about how to build interactive web applications (here called "gateways"), albeit server-side rather than client-side: https://info.cern.ch/hypertext/WWW/FAQ/Server.html

I appreciate the HTTPS support

First let me clearly state that I appreciate the amount of thought you guys are putting into creating better systems that have high privacy guarantees. I concede to you, that in some situations, your system leads to better privacy.

But I don't look at this on a purely technological level. These identity-based systems are instruments of control. Right now everything is still in flux with how these tools will be used and how accessible they are to the general population and the many minorities therein. I simply don't trust our politicians to do the right thing short-term and long-term. The establishment of the GDPR has been a major victory for better privacy legislation and now the Commission wants to hollow it out. The Commission also wants chat control to increase the amount of mass surveillance in Europe.

There is a potential future, where we all win. But I am highly skeptical, that in the current political climate, we will end up there.


Is there any production ready implementation out there?

ZKP is integrated in Google Wallet and has been running in production for a few months. We (Google) released the ZKP library as open source last year (this is the library used in production).

Announcement: https://blog.google/innovation-and-ai/technology/safety-secu...

Library: https://github.com/google/longfellow-zk

Paper: https://eprint.iacr.org/2024/2010

Afterwards, folks from ISRG produced an independent implementation https://github.com/abetterinternet/zk-cred-longfellow with our blessing and occasional help. I don't know if the authors would call it "production ready" yet, but it is at least code complete, fast enough, and interoperable with ours.


Thanks. I'll have a look.

The problem is: The people who typically support this type of thing are either technically illiterate and they support it, because it sounds good. Or they are promoting these laws because they actually want more surveillance and control. It's not about protecting children.

I still haven't read any truly compelling argument, why this type of surveillance is actually effective and proportionate.


The problem is that people who don't know the history of the internet just call everything with user posts "social media". Web 2.0 has some overlap with social networks. But it is still a different concept. And social media is a meaningless term at this point.

A native Frisian speaker would probably have an even easier time, given that Frisian is the closest language to English. However, Frisian is still more similar to other west-germanic languages than English.

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