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This went from #2 on the front page to the bottom of page 2 very quickly. It's unfortunate.

Or one person types 76 pages. This is a thing people used to do, not all that infrequently. Or maybe you have one friend who will help–cool, you just cut the time in half.

Typing 76 pages is easy when it's words in a language you understand. WPM is going to be incredibly slow when you actually have to read every character. On top of that, no spaces and no spellcheck so hopefully you didn't miss a character.

Seems like a job for an LLM

Quite the opposite if you want to trust the results

It's happening again. Spoofing is in progress, rendering another image. ADS-B Exchange has blocked access to the ICAOs/hexes in question--if you try to look at their history you get redirected to the base map.

https://x.com/TheIntelFrog/status/2016841289556168990


A transponder in a car is not an "aircraft station" (§ 87.5), therefore it is not covered by aircraft "license-by-rule" (§ 87.18(b)), so transmitting would be operating without a valid authorization (§ 1.903(a)). https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-47/chapter-I/subchapter-D...


That's not true. And if you click almost anywhere else on the spoofed track it will show as Source: ADS-B.


Maybe not "rely" on, but some definitely use public ADS-B aggregator sites.


I highly doubt any ATC on duty is looking at a public ADS-B aggregator as a real time source of information for his or her job.


There are non-radar towers that don't have scopes. They may have a traffic display, or maybe not. They might choose to use a public ADS-B aggregator site because it gives them situational awareness, but they don't use it to provide radar services to aircraft. That's my understanding from listening to a lot podcast episodes with air traffic controllers, anyway. I think it's an unofficial, non-FAA approved kind of thing that can make their jobs easier.

See https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/atc_html... for non-radar ATC procedures.


> They might choose to use a public ADS-B aggregator site because it gives them situational awareness

I do not understand what the upside is, aside from saving a tiny amount of effort and cost -- they could get the same data with more reliability by just running their own ADS-B receiver, without having a dependency on a third-party.


> they could get the same data with more reliability by just running their own ADS-B receiver, without having a dependency on a third-party.

Setting up an ADS-B receiver is indeed very cheap. Less than 100$. That's what many people, both aviation enthusiasts and ham radio operators, do for fun.

The problem is, do that on an airport? You'll now need permits to install the antenna (needs to be covered in the lightning protection system and even if it's just a passive receiver probably someone needs to sign off on an antenna being added). Fire code means you'll need approval and specialized people to run the cable (you need to drill holes in fire walls). Maybe there's some law or regulation requiring approval or causing a paper trail (e.g. in Germany, all electrical appliances have to be isolation-tested and visually inspected every two years by an electrician). Doing that the proper way is an awful lot of work. And by that point, someone will notice "hey, a Raspberry Pi? An RTL-SDR stick from eBay? No way that is certified to be used in a safety critical environment", killing off the project or requiring a certified device costing orders of magnitude more money.

In contrast, a privately owned laptop, tablet or phone with the Flightaware app? No one will give a shit about it unless someone relies on FA too much, causes an incident and that is found out.


All good points. I'd set it up very near the airport but not on it and then access it using the same web browser that I'd use to go to ADSB Exchange.


> I'd set it up very near the airport but not on it

The problem is, you need to have a good height for the antenna - "height is might" in radio, particularly above VHF bands. I actually can see this with my own ADS-B receiver - I'm in a valley and precisely can see that effect when plotting received packets.


I get good distance from my ground level antenna, but while I'm in a valley, it's very wide and long. My assumption is that most airports are going to be in fairly flat areas.


Why? You would almost certainly get better data with higher reliability and no effort and no money spent from airplanes.live, adsbexchange.com, etc.


The original point was that you become reliant on a public service, probably run by volunteers, for something halfway critical to your operation. Doing it yourself is easy and then you control the reliability, not someone else.


You're just saying things that don't have basis in reality.

It's not something halfway critical to the operation–why would the FAA allow that? ADS-B Exchange is not run by volunteers–it's run by employees of JETNET LLC, an aviation intelligence company. Doing it yourself almost certainly gives you less information–you're not part of a global network of receivers. It almost certainly gives you less reliability–receivers in the big networks typically have a fair amount of overlap which gives redundancy your single receiver doesn't have.

It's also not FAA approved!


I'd assume it's more to see "whats the latest ETA for this aircraft that's scheduled for 1 hour?". Their own ADS-B receiver is unlikely to pick it up.


Upside may be just that the equivalent first-party system doesn't exist or performs worse? ATC tower isn't a SCIF, they probably get their real-time news from Twitter like everyone else, too.


> they could get the same data

They could get uncensored data too - you dont want billionaires jets crashing into other planes because they didnt want to be tracked.


airplanes.live, adsb.lol, ADS-B Exchange, adsb.fi, etc. do not censor the data.


Imagine your boss doesn’t like you looking at ADS-B sites because it’s not data from an FAA approved system but as long as you’re discreet and not actually breaking a reg they don’t yell at you. Then they come in and see that you installed an antenna, RTL-SDR, and raspberry pi in the tower.


if there is any critical aviation service using a 3rd party website that relies on volunteer reporting of data, they deserve whatever happens


As other commenters noted, this is almost certainly not RF spoofing, just sending bad data to an aggregator (ADS-B Exchange) over the internet.

This instance of spoofing is notable for being the first that I know of that wasn't primitive vector art or text, but a raster image!

In that area of Florida multiple receivers would have picked up actual ADS-B broadcasts. ADS-B aggregators do have various anti-spoofing measures, but they're not impossible to circumvent.

The only case of actual RF spoofing of aircraft transponder signals that I know of was actually done by the U.S. Secret Service, which interfered with passenger jet collision alert systems (TCAS) by apparently broadcasting bogus signals near Ronald Reagan National Airport (KDCA): https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/aviation-flights-whi...


Just because I don't often get a chance to talk about this, I'll mention that there was a malfunction/accident/bug that caused what you might call spoofed signals to go out around Long Island and New York. Really interesting case where it seems that an FAA system wasn't handling magnetic declination correctly, which led to it generating false TIS-B targets that were rotated 13 degrees from real aircraft positions, from the radar antenna point of view: https://x.com/lemonodor/status/1508505542423064578

(TIS-B is a system that broadcasts ADS-B-like signals for aircraft that are being tracked by radar but either don't have ADS-B Out or otherwise might not be picked up by other aircraft with ADS-B In, e.g. maybe they're at a low altitude.)

There have been a couple other incidents with the TIS-B system. E.g. this apparent test near Dallas in 2022 that generated dozens of false targets in an interesting pattern: https://x.com/lemonodor/status/1481712428932997122 There was a similar incident around LAX several months later.


whoa, i saw your initial tweet about this, but never saw your follow up that confirmed the magnetic declination association. the convergence back to the ground radar is brilliant. nice find.


Wow, that would appear to have some potential for bad stuff to happen.


Notably, the history of this aircraft shows MLAT as the source for all tracking. This spoof is the first ads-b “track” for this plane.

But there’s so much wrong with the data: 50k ft at 80knots (ground speed!) in a 747.


Dang, dude invented a 747 that's incapable of stalling.


Groundspeed, not airspeed.


hundred knots of wind on demand is also not a small invention :)


Must be a strong headwind!


(Of course if you were spoofing ADS-B RF signals you wouldn't necessarily need to be anywhere near the spoofed locations. Just like with GPS spoofing.)


Surely the receiver would run plausibility checks on the received messages and reject spoofed locations that are physically impossible to receive by said receiver?


> spoofed locations that are physically impossible to receive by said receiver?

Wait until you hear about Sporadic-E or Aurora. RF is a weird place full of natural phenomena making the impossible very possible.


But even if that was the case, is there any value for a receiver to be receiving those? Surely those messages would be picked up by a receiver closer to the transmitter anyway. I think the value in spoofing rejection is greater than the probability of a transmission reflecting from beyond the horizon and not being already being picked up by a local receiver.


> But even if that was the case, is there any value for a receiver to be receiving those?

Yes, radio propagation is an entire academic field to be studied :)

In addition, if you have enough receivers you can use that to run something called MLAT [1] to also pick up GA aircraft that just have a transponder but no GPS. The more the merrier.

[1] https://adsbx.discourse.group/t/multilateration-mlat-how-it-...


These receivers mostly don’t have gps and it’s very common for people to put in the wrong coordinates.


I agree with this. Hopefully they're able to track down who did this. To upload to ADS-B Exchange you need an account. But it's not that difficult to get one. I'm not sure what kind of information they may be able to get on it. As you say the person who uploaded this may not be anywhere near there. The aggregators probably should have heuristics like if only one feeder in an area with a decent density of feeder coverage uploads an anomalous track, it should get flagged.


> Hopefully they're able to track down who did this.

Why? Was anybody harmed?

Hopefully they don't find out who did this. There was never any danger, and without this kind of joke, the world would be less fun.

(Obviously it should be harder to fool critical systems, so this served also as a warning, but if you want to attack such a system, a real bad guy would do this in more subtle ways.)


This is a fun project that combines a cheap PTZ camera + OpenCV, Kalman filtering, PID control, and digital stabilization to not just snap photos of aircraft flying past, but do rock solid, pixel-level tracking as long as they're in sight.

And it can be combined with a source of ADS-B data so it knows what it's looking at, displaying the info on the OSD.


They do seem to be jamming GPS around Tehran at least, as seen on GPSJAM. https://bsky.app/profile/lemonodor.bsky.social/post/3mcak43p...


The CEO of Flock, Garrett Langley, called Deflock a terrorist group. It's unhinged. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-kZGrDz7PU


I live in an Atlanta neighborhood where one of the founders lived. A prototype for Flock Camera was designed by three Georgia Tech grads because someone kept breaking into their car (not uncommon in our neighborhood tbh).

The trick is that the camera was pointed towards a middle school. Which means they were constantly recording kids without adult consent.

Now, years later, Atlanta is the most surveilled city in North America and one of the most in the world. Flock cameras are everywhere. There are 124 cameras for every 1,000 people. Just last week, a ex-urb police chef was arrested for using the Flock network to stalk and harass citizens.

I know a lot of people who work at Flock. I’m shocked that they do though.

I don’t know when it stops.


You shouldn't be shocked.

People gladly line up to work for organizations who willfully erode their civil rights all the time.

Just look at all the people here who work for Google, FB, Palantir etc.

It stops when we gather outside these CEO's houses and burn them to the ground.


That makes a lot of sense… I’m in the rich/middle class north Atlanta burbs visiting family, and the entrance to every cul-de-sac has a flock LPR pointing inwards.

I didn’t notice it at all last year but the cameras were there. Benn blew the cap off and now they’re omnipresent.


>There are 124 cameras for every 1,000 people

How does that make any kind of economic sense? Morals aside, that’s a ridiculous amount of devices, data collected and transmitted, and so on.


The police has never made economic sense. If you look up your local PD's budget, you will be shocked.

There's only so much military-grade vehicles you can spend that on, I guess. Cameras will do.


Gonna have to write more speeding tickets to pay for these, I guess


>How does that make any kind of economic sense?

It's not about economics, it's about control.


The cameras don't make economic sense unless the goal is to enrich contractors or generate money on speed/red light tickets.

The bottleneck in solving crime is going after the criminals. There's already not enough resources to go after the crimes that are open and shut.


While this makes intuitive sense, do you have any evidence of it?


Honestly, not really. If you actually want to have decent coverage to observe crimes and track criminals, that's a ballpark reasonable figure.

And it's not really that expensive, and the idea is that it ultimately saves money in terms of the crime it prevents and fewer police and detectives needed.

I'm not defending it, but in terms of economic sense it's quite well justified. Opposition to it is moral/ideological around privacy/freedom, not economic.


The series Person of Interest is reality just minus the good AI and Batman side of the story


And car break-ins aren't happening any less frequently.


It's wild how stalking isn't considered by these people from day one.

Hire anyone whos worked in healthcare privacy or compliance and they will tell you without a doubt ex-girlfriends, bitter rivals and celebrities are the #1 item people abuse their access for.


> constantly recording kids without adult consent

Why do they need consent in a public place? Children vandalize, steal, etc. as well - should they just be immune from detection because they are below some arbitrary age?

Do banks just shut off all surveillance when a child walks past their front door?


He has said his goal is for a "world with no crime. Thanks to Flock." and his goal is not aspirational, visionary, but quite literal.

He sees false negatives as more problematic than false positives. He has admitted being inspired by Minority Report (to me it's always very telling when someone takes a cautionary tale like this and finds it "inspirational").

It is right to be amazingly concerned.


Sci-Fi Author: In my book I invented the Torment Nexus as a cautionary tale

Tech Company: At long last, we have created the Torment Nexus from classic sci-fi novel Don't Create The Torment Nexus


Show HN: Torment nexus. Built in Rust (YC W25).


Oof, that felt too real. I'm half torn making that a reality before someone else does.

That's often the thing about these torment nexuses, they're somehow profitable.


Expect more of this. The masks are coming off.

“Are the fires of Hell a-glowing? Is the grisly reaper mowing? Yes! The danger must be growing For the rowers keep on rowing And they're certainly not showing Any signs that they are slowing!” - Willie Wonka


"like Antifa". Very telling how he uses a far-right boogeyman as comparison point, literally antifascists.

If you're anti-antifascist, you are exposing yourself.


[flagged]


How are they conspiring to destroy it? Are you saying that coordinating attempts to change policy counts as destroying the previous policy, or are you drawing a line from identifying and locating the cameras to (possibly other) people actively vandalizing them?


If they were doing that, that would be a criminal conspiracy, not terrorism. Authoritarians often like to call ordinary criminals, political opponents, and dissenters terrorists to delegitimize them and justify harsher behavior against them. I assume that's what Garrett Langley was trying to do when he called them a "terroristic organization".

Luckily for DeFlock they're not doing anything "terroristic" or even criminal.


As another commenter said, it's a criminal conspiracy or something to that effect. If terrorism is supposed to be the use of violence against non-combatants to attain a political or ideological goal... then would de-Flock be anti-terrorism? Removing Flock cameras makes me feel less terrorized.


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