Unlike the California law, I seemed to be in the minority in this opinion, this one does seem to require programs like grep to ask for a users age bracket.
> (b) An operator shall request a signal with respect to a
particular user from an operating system provider or a covered
application store when the application is downloaded and
launched.
Unlike the California law I do not see anything that restricts this to child accounts only.
So let say I have a program:
print("Hello, World!")
and I want to publish it to say npm or nixos, or some linux distribution. Not with out violating this law. This application needs to request the users age brackets at least at 'downloaded and launched' optimistically that means once on first launch, but potentially needs to be requested on each launch of the application. So lets fix the program
I think that main goal would be to keep the ability to have accounts be anonymous or pseudo anonymous.
If social mean company has to verify an accounts age themselves they then have to use some for of official government identification and with that any chance of anonymous or pseudo anonymous access.
Facebook has less than zero interest in allowing people to use their platform anonymously. They very much want to know everything about their users including their age and they would never back a law that would stop them from collecting that data. Now that you know that facebook isn't pushing this law to protect anyone's anonymity why do you think they're doing it?
> Now that you know that facebook isn't pushing this law to protect anyone's anonymity why do you think they're doing it?
My comment was not about what I knew/know about facebook or not. I was answering the question of why age verification should be externalized to a degree and in this case externalized means the power stays with the user and parents rather than being in the hands of say facebook/meta.
I was not talking about why facebook/meta would want it or not want it. Large companies want lots of different things. Sometimes it is required to know their motivations to discuss or decide on something. I think it can be detrimental to do that though without discussing/analyzing a topic/idea on its own merits first or at least parallel. My comment was focused on the merits not the motivations or desires of companies like facebook.
The point is that you can't just externalize age verification and expect that data to never be sent to facebook because facebook needs that data to do anything (good or bad). It doesn't matter if your OS broadcasts that your child is 6-9 to facebook or if facebook has to ask the government to tell them that same information, either way, in the end facebook will know that your child is 6-9. The power is then in facebook's hands. Facebook won't see a copy of their government issued ID, but what difference does that make when they've got their age, their selfies, and a list of every friend and family member.
> The point is that you can't just externalize age verification and expect that data to never be sent to facebook
facebook and similar social media companies have a ton of ways to get peoples age and or to narrow it down.
> either way, in the end facebook will know that your child is 6-9.
The main point of the law is not about restricting facebook or similar operator in the laws lanuage from knowing user ages. Though the does say the age bracket can not be used for anything other than to implement the intent of the law.
> The power is then in facebook's hands. Facebook won't see a copy of their government issued ID, but what difference does that make when they've got their age, their selfies, and a list of every friend and family member.
May not matter much for facebook or similar, it matters a bunch for any random website/forum/service you might sign up for where the intent of the service is not about public posting that sort of personal infromation.
> facebook and similar social media companies have a ton of ways to get peoples age and or to narrow it down... May not matter much for facebook or similar, it matters a bunch for any random website/forum/service you might sign up for
You're right about that. There are websites and services that won't have the kind of data needed to identify an individual using the age bracket data, and there are those who could do it anyway or could make some guesses about the ages of users even without having OS gathered age data sent to them. That said, I've seen how bad companies are at making those kinds of assumptions. For example, I've seen youtube's AI age guesser fail completely and mischaracterize viewers ages in both directions.
> Though the does say the age bracket can not be used for anything other than to implement the intent of the law.
I didn't see that anywhere in the text. It does have a section where it says that the age data collected can't be shared with third parties unless they're made a part of the implementation of age-check scheme. There's also this: "All information collected for the purpose of obtaining the verifiable parental consent required under this Section shall not be used for any purpose other than obtaining verifiable parental consent and shall be deleted immediately after an attempt to obtain verifiable parental consent" but it's entirely unclear if age bracket data is considered part of the data collected when "obtaining verifiable parental consent". I suspect that it isn't and this language is intended to protect the data of the adults who will be forced to prove they are the child's parents. In fact they don't define at all what "obtaining verifiable parental consent" should or shouldn't involve.
You are right it is hard to use it for anything else though given the constraints.
> An operator that receives a signal in accordance with 20this Section shall use that signal to comply with this Section 21but shall not: 22 (1) request more information from an operating system 23 provider or a covered application store than the minimum 24 amount of information necessary to comply with this 25 Section;
You know the age bracket but nothing else and are not allowed to store more data on the topic to figure anything out. So you can not legally figure out someones age by keeping track of when they change age brackets.
> In fact they don't define at all what "obtaining verifiable parental consent" should or shouldn't involve.
It is the "Account holder". The user that set up the account and provide the age is considered the parent or legal guardian.
So we have to pay some 3rd party service to hoard information about Children? Why we want to set that up? Why would we want to take that power from the parents and give it to some company?
Does the technology already exist? Things are almost never only a tech issue alone. That does not mean tech can not help, even if the tech that would help is currently impractical. What is impractical now though may not be in 10, 20, 50 years.
Going over what I quoted:
> You can’t serve up intentionally stale information without inviting legal repercussions.
Keeping information fresh and up to date is something technology has helped with in many areas. If there is a reasons why it can not help here then I an interested in why or that the current tech already does a good enough job in this area.
> These are being revised and updated right up until the point they are released to provide the most accurate reporting possible.
Technology can help verify last minute changes, running a test suite for example or similar. How hard that is to make or maintain though may make impractical.
> You gravely underestimate the legal seriousness of these reports.
Having an audit trail and known processes may be helpful here too if the current tooling is not adequate.
I quoted parts of the comment that looked like areas where tech has already helped in other areas. What I want to find out are details about what exists, why people think it can not be better, or why pervious attempts have failed, or why things are currently optimal.
> it requires substantial interpretation of things that the database does not and cannot contain.
Do you have examples? This seems like something that is a solvable problem, and from the outside it can seem like it is only about not being willing to switch to a new paradigm. That unwilling ness can come from avoiding real consequences like loosing a competitive edge due to allocation of resources to the switchover.
When people think of automation I'm assuming their thinking of the financial statements (balance sheet, income, cash flows, equity).
Reporting also contains narrative explanations by management of: the company's financial health, updates on any new or existing market risks and the company's strategy to deal with them, any changes to controls or accounting procedures, updates on any new or existing litigation, and more.
These reports need to be certified for truth by the CEO, CFO, and relevant officers under penalty of 10+ years in jail and millions of dollars in fines personally.
It's also common to do a press release, earnings call, and investor presentation but those aren't required.
I meant just closing the financial records, not coming up with the shareholder marketing. It can take a month just to find out if you "made" the quarter or not, mostly because accounting and finance is combing through every line item to see if they can recategorize it in a way that makes the numbers look better but doesn't result in them going to jail
In what should be a very black and white line of work there is a ton of judgement and negotiation involved
Historically, like 10-20 years ago, libertarian would be staunchly pro privacy. Is this no longer the case? If libertarians have dropped this stance, since it is so close to what was the core beliefs, I really have no mental model of the philosophy/politics for libertarians any more.
Any primer/link on what current libertarians believe is welcome.
It’s possible to want something without wanting to live in a system where there is a nanny to enforce that thing. Other means of enforcement exist, such as free markets.
Yes, but there's really not very many libertarians left who haven't cast their lot in for Republican support, resulting in the present situation. Not that there were many to begin with.
You might find it useful to distinguish between right and left libertarians.
All my anarchist (left libertarian) friends are pretty consistently opposed to state and corporate surveillance. There is plenty of theory in a canon of literature that goes back to the mid 19th century, even as there are many subgroups and spurs off that general line of thought all with their own sets of (usually somewhat) consistent lines.
If you want something short and brutal, I am a fan of "Desert" by anonymous, but "A Utopia of Rules" by David Graeber is not a bad thing to read and probably closer to a popular line. Or the CIA-Coded Yale academic James Scott has a lot to say, "Two Cheers for Anarchism" and "Seeing Like a State" both seem to have influenced a lot of people.
Historically "right libertarians" (the US Libertarian political party, for instance) have been, uh, "less consistent" in their thinking, so you might have a hard time finding anything that looks like a "philosophy" in that branch of "thought". Plenty of goofy-ass ideas, but little consistency except a strange ability to begrudgingly conform to GOP politics at the end of the day.
One example of voice is of retreading old ground over and over, taking a long time to give evidence or get to the point. Content expressed with this voice is hard to extract from the text.
Another voice might add citations to every little detail to the point that it is hard to read, but makes a great reference and/or starting point for additional research.
Voice is not really separate from content, in part it is the choices of what content to include.
For now I would argue when ai edits for you instead of helping you edit. Take a look at the examples that Dang posted if you have not yet:
https://hackernews.hn/item?id=47342616
The first 5 I looked at were pretty egregious and not subtle.
Most of the comments I saw on the first page are not an accusation but there are some there 2 of the 3 I looked at looked pretty clear cut, while the 3rd was poorly written hype which looks like llm output, but I have seen similar from humans before at least from what I read, in either case it was flagged appropriately.
> If that's the case why would somebody who has good ideas but poor expressive capability bother posting here if their comments are just going to get ignored over relatively vapid comments that are grammatically correct?
The main problem is that ai consistently is seeing making things worse. Take a look at the examples in Dang's link in their comment:
https://hackernews.hn/item?id=47342616
In the ones I read the AI editing is either hurting or needs to be much, much better to help.
> (b) An operator shall request a signal with respect to a particular user from an operating system provider or a covered application store when the application is downloaded and launched.
Unlike the California law I do not see anything that restricts this to child accounts only.
So let say I have a program:
and I want to publish it to say npm or nixos, or some linux distribution. Not with out violating this law. This application needs to request the users age brackets at least at 'downloaded and launched' optimistically that means once on first launch, but potentially needs to be requested on each launch of the application. So lets fix the program There we go, now the code is compliant with my imagined ageBracket module.reply