I agree with base 10 being inconvenient, but I'm failing to see what that has to do with the metric system. The principle could be applied to any base; base 10 just happens to be the one that we're (currently) using.
> I'm failing to see what that has to do with the metric system
You are an apprentice house builder. Your boss hands you meter-stick, with 100 lines on it to mark out the centemeters, and asks you to cut him a piece of wood which is 1/3 meter long. This puzzles you, because you can't find a line on that stick which indicates 1/3rd of a meter.
So you go back to your boss, and he grumbles, but gives you another meter stick, with 1,000 lines on it. You still can't find a line on the stick which indicates 1/3rd of a meter....
I'm assuming there is a reason for the 1/3 meter request, such as the board needs to fit in a specific spot. So you are saying that it is better to hand the worker a yard stick, so he can measure out 13.12322835 (approx) inches?
In reality, I would cut the board either 33.4 mm, or 13 1/8 inches (a bit long) then pound it in place (wood has a bit of give to it).
You're missing it entirely. If we weren't measuring using meters in the first place he wouldn't even be asked to cut 1/3rd of a meter. He'd be asked to cut 1/3rd of a yard, which is very easy on a yardstick. It only needs to fit in a specific spot that is a third of a meter because the structure around that spot was measured and built with the metric system.
The US customary system conventionally uses reciprocal powers of two. 1/3 is unlikely to be a specified distance. I rarely hear anyone speak in yards. If someone wanted “a third of a yard” they’d just say one foot. A third of a foot is just four inches. Or slightly less for clearance would be three and 7/8 inches, etc.
I don't think they would ever ask to cut in 1/3rd... I can't imagine scenario where this happens in building. You always have things like wall thickness and such to consider also. You just don't make useless cuts.
Boss tells you to install 3 separate cabinets with shelves in 1 meter space. You measure that too to be sure it is. Then you see cabinet walls are 1 cm thick, you need 4 walls. 96 cm total shelve space. Actually this is nice 32 cm per shelve... And you even have some room to make extra cuts...
Looking over the replies to this post, its pretty obvious that some of you have never really actually built anything requiring any amount of measurement.
"Why don't I just give my boss a 33mm piece?" -- and leave a 1mm gap in your house, where ants can come in, and heat goes out....
"Why would I ever need a board 1/3rd of a meter long?" -- sigh it could just as easily be a board 10/3 meters long, or 200/3 meters long. Because 3 is a small prime, and by the fundamental theorem of arithmetic, 3 is going to be a factor in a lot of integral lengths.
Say you are designing a switch with two buttons on it, "on" and "off". Well, the centers of those two buttons are going to be located at 1/3rd and 2/3rds of the length of the plate they are mounted on.
Say you design a crock pot with 3 buttons for the heat, "low", "medium", and "high". You don't want two of those buttons to be 1cm apart and the other 2cms apart!
If you look at countries like, say, Japan, or Germany, which really do use the metric system, you'll find that they measure things not in centimeters, but in millimeters. And the lengths they use are numbers like 48, or 120, which have lots of factors of 2 and 3 in them. Because you divide lengths into 2 or 3 parts all the time.
Which is to say, if you want to actually use the metric system in industrial design, you don't use a lot of lengths which are powers of 10. You use lengths which are divisible by 12 anyways.
There's a reason the U.S. never went off the English system, and why countries like Canada and the U.K., which actually make real efforts to try to go off of the English system still use a lot of English units in everyday measurements. And it's not just because of conservatism, or NIH syndrome.
Why would my boss ask for a piece of wood which is 1/3 meter long, when everyone who ever learned the metric system knows it's base ten? It's the kind of thing that never happens in practice, just like an American boss would never ask a piece of wood 0.24 yard long.
But you can represent 1/3 cleanly in base 12, so inches don't have this problem.
Yeah, you can't represent 1/10, but why does that matter? When 1/10 comes up in practice it's almost always as a side effect of us using base 10, not a natural requirement to partition something 10 ways.
for the reason it was used in the artificial example given above I guess. OTOH it should be expected that the fractions 1/2, 1/3, 1/4, 1/5, 1/6... appear more often than others in practical work, not sure about that
Here is a thumbnail sketch of a reason for why they do:
1. Large structures tend to be build from smaller substructures. (E.g., a train is typically built of a number of cars, a 6-pack is built from 6 cans).
2. And large structures tend to be built from integral multiples of smaller substructures, because a fraction of a substructure is typically not as useful as a whole substructure. (e.g. a train car missing its wheels isn't as useful as an intact train car, and a partially drunk-up can of beer isn't nearly as desirable as a whole can of beer.)
3. The fundamental theorem of arithmetic says that every integer can be factored into prime numbers.
4. Small primes are more common factors of integers than large primes are. (e.g. you more often want twice of something than 37 times of something)
Ergo:
5. Most of the numbers involved in designing and building something are going to be divisible by 2 and 3--because the number of subsystems it contains will likely be multiples of 2 and 3. Prime factors of 5 and over are relatively rare.
6. Therefore, when you are measuring the larger system, it is handy to use units which are easily divisible by 2 and 3. (like a foot is 12 inches).
Its why donuts and eggs are sold by the dozen, and beer comes in 6-packs, and cases of 24. You are far more likely to divide up cans of beer or some donuts to a number of people which is divisible by 2 or 3, then by 5 or any higher prime factor.
> Why is 1/3 so critical to represent but not 1/10?
TLDR reason: Every second number is divisible by 2. Every third number is divisible by 3.
So if you want to divide something (like donuts or cans of beer, or the length of a wood plank) by N, it's far more likely that N will have a factor of 2 or 3 than it will not have a factor of 3, but be divisible by 10. Which is to say, you are far more likely to need tick marks spaced by 1/2 and 1/3 than tick marks spaced by 1/10. Which is to say that a 12-inch ruler is preferable to a 10 cm ruler, Q.E.D.
That's why they sell donuts by the dozen, and beer in 6-packs. And why the US officially (and Canada and the UK unofficially) still use English units for everyday measurements. Its just more practical.
That's a good question, actually. Surely, they can. But if you look at countries which really embrace the metric system, like Japan, or Germany, and look at the products they design, you'll find that the dimensions are not given in centimeters. The centimeter is, empirically, not a very useful length.
Instead, what you find is that they measure things in millimeters--and curiously, the lengths in millimeters tend to be numbers like 48, or 120, i.e. numbers which have lots of factors of 2 and 3 in them.
Don't just take my word for it!! Go browse Amazon.com and see what typical lengths of objects designed in those countries are, and what units they are stated in.
Which is to say, if you are really going to use the metric system, you are going to be using lots of lengths divisible by 12 anyways. Which means they are not powers of 10, and probably not divisible by 10, which means you've largely lost the biggest advantage of the metric system--easy arithmetic for numbers which are powers of 10 and divisible by 10.
Cf with a ruler, which is divided into 12 inches, and each inch into tenths. There is a line on that ruler for 1/2 a foot, 1/4 of a foot, 1/5th of a foot---and 1/3rd and 1/6th of a foot. All of the smallest and most commonly used prime numbers are present and accounted for.
cf with a 10-centimeter ruler, each cm divided into 10 milimeters. You've got lines for powers of 1/2 and 1/5--that's it. If you want to divide it by any other factor, you are squinting your eyes and guesstimating between lines.
You're missing the point. What I'm saying is that the metric system is built around base 10, not because of its properties, but because it's the base we use in general - and the simplicity of having one single system with seamless conversions.
Arguing in favour of base 12 systems would make sense if it seemed doable to introduce more numerals and replace base 10 altogether, in my opinion, but that's not realistic.
Besides, if you live somewhere where the metric system is used, and you're unable to manually measure and cut one third of a meter (0.333m/33.3cm/333mm/333333µm) with the same speed and precision as you would be able to using a yard-stick - then you probably shouldn't be allowed near the tools needed in the first place.
PS. In practice, the boss would've asked you for a piece that is either 3dm, 33cm or 333mm long, indicating the expected precision.
You also have minimum wages regulated by law. In Sweden, both strikes and minimum wages are regulated by the agreement Tesla is refusing to sign.
The union wants regulation, that's the whole point. Tesla only have themselves to blame for any action that stems from the decision to not sign a collective agreement.
PS. 90% of Swedish labor is covered by collective agreements that has been hammered out over the last century - it is custom to sign it and no one has brought in scabs for almost a century during a strike, forcing unions to step up their game. As Tesla threatens the Swedish model, it is a concern for all labor.
Please provide a reputable source of Tesla workers not striking and a theory of who it is that is standing by the so called picket fence.
The unions are allowed to strike because Tesla refuse to sign the collective agreement that regulates the use of strikes while the employees in return are guaranteed a minimum wage, pensions and so on - as have been custom in Sweden over the last century.
Tesla could sign this agreement any time they want to, but they're choosing this fight while the unions wants regulation. That's on them, not anyone else - and Musk is perfectly free to take his business elsewhere if he don't want to conform to Swedish customs.
More than 90% of labor is covered by collective agreements in Sweden, and while the number of members has dropped over the last few decades, about 70% of the population is still members of a union. When Tesla comes in, breaking all unwritten rules and customs and consequently attacking the Swedish model - this is bound to meet heavy resistance from the Swedish workforce.
Can you imagine the outrage that would come from a Swedish company coming to the US, trying to change fundamental mechanics of the system there without the support of its citizens? Why shouldn't this scenario result in the same outrage and resistance here in Sweden?
The solution is simple, sign the agreement - as is custom here in Sweden. If they can't conform to Swedish customs then they are perfectly free to leave.
To be fair, I've made the same (not identical) arguments over three different threads on the same subject. However, I'm still waiting for the first serious reply with an actual argument.
You’ll never win an argument that has such different cultures in the comment section, sadly. Not only are there the US ideas of unions here, but also Musk fanboyism. It’s a lost cause!
I'm not really expecting to turn any Musk-fanatics around if I'm being honest, even though a serious argument or two from a couple of them could be fun. I'm more interested in providing context to those who read the comments and haven't thought about this matter in a context other than that of the US.
Sorry, please provide more context for me to able to answer your question. /s
PS. I explained why it's legal and why other unions feel obligated to join in, but you have not provided any arguments to why it should be illegal. Please explain Russell's teapot in this context.
More than 90% of the labor in Sweden is covered by collective agreements. Tesla is breaking unwritten rules and is threatening the Swedish model, this is bound to meet heavy resistance from the Swedish labor in full force.
While the US regulates strikes and minimum wages by law, it is in Sweden regulated by collective agreements. As Tesla is refusing to sign such an agreement in negotiations, they themselves made these strikes inevitable.
If a Swedish company coming to the US tried to change fundamental mechanics of the system there without the support of its citizens there would be a legitimate public outrage and calls for action. Why would Sweden be any different?
You do know that 90% of Swedish workers are covered by collective agreements, right? While the unions have lost members over the last few decades, about 70% of the population is still members of a union. As such, the number 0.01% only proves your complete ignorance in this matter. Sweden isn't the US and the behavior of the unions isn't comparable to that of the US narrative - nor are the rules and customs of our nation.
The 0.01% is in this situation the foreign CEOs while the 99.9% is the actual population. Your made the perfect argument in favor of the unions, by sheer ignorance.
PS. The lost in members is likely due to the fact that those who isn't unionized reap most of the benefits anyway. Employers usually sign collective agreements voluntarily as it usually benefits both employer and employees. The numbers would likely go back up if they didn't.
The argument that dockworkers single-handedly is deciding what is allowed to be imported is simply false to begin with. The members of the Transport don't dictate what's allowed to be imported - there's just no-one that's willing to unload cars of this specific brand before the ship has to leave again. There's a difference, as Tesla could try to import them by other means.
So far there's at least five large unions that have already joined or is about to join the strike, as it affects the whole of Sweden. To calculate how many members there are in the unions that are currently involved and actively support these actions you'd have to include mechanics (IF Metall), dockworkers (Transport and Hamnarbetarförbundet), electricians (Elektrikerförbundet), maintenance workers (Kommunal) and postal service employees (SEKO). These five unions amount to about 1M members in total, or 19% of the Swedish workforce, as some of them have members from more than one field.
The pressure will be incrementally increased until Tesla realize that they have the whole nation against them, so you would pretty soon have to include the full 70% of the working population to calculate how many members there are in the unions that's currently involved. The docks is a good place to start but as we've seen today, that was merely a warning shot - as advertised in advance.
To summarize: Yesterday, dockworkers began their blockade after giving notice a while back. The electricians and maintenance workers gave notice of sympathy strikes yesterday, refusing to do repairs of Tesla's charging stations and maintenance work at their facilities. Today, the Union of Service and Communications Employees put Tesla on notice, refusing to process mail and packages related to the company.
Did I miss any union? It's quite hard to keep up with the (very predictable) development right now.
Indeed, I wonder if Unionen, who almost went on strike with Klarna, will also join in on some way. Surely there must we many Unionen members working in relation to Tesla as well
Also wonder if/when any other Nordic union will join in.
Transport union in Norway is considering to join, to prevent Tesla from shipping their cars to Sweden through Norway. I would be surprised if any of the big unions in any Nordic country stays out of this for long. Allowing Musk to win this would set a very bad precedent.
Yeah, other Nordic unions is an interesting thought that has crossed my mind as well. Tesla, Amazon and other American companies that refuse to conform to the local customs either is or will be a problem for everyone in the region, so there's at least some incentive for them to join in.
Unionen would be a very welcome addition to the list, as would Finansförbundet. I expect we'll see a steady flow of notices this week. Fingers crossed for these two, definitely. These arrogant foreign CEO's thinking they can come to our nation and ignore the customs is so nonchalant that an example needs to be made. Imagine the reaction to a Swede trying to dictate US politics without the approval of its citizens...
TLDR; The Swedish union of Service and Communications puts Tesla on notice of a sympathy strike, refusing to deliver mail and packages to Tesla in support of IF Metall's demand of a collective agreement. The action will go into effect on the 20th of November, 2023.
----- Translation -------
IF Metall's fight is also our fight. By refusing to comply with the rules of the game here in Sweden, Tesla is trying to gain competitive advantages by giving the workers worse wages and conditions than they would have with a collective agreement. It is of course completely unacceptable. The fight that IF Metall is now taking is important for the entire Swedish collective agreement model. Therefore, our union board has chosen to issue a sympathy notice, says Seko's union president, Gabriella Lavecchia.
Seko's sympathy measures involve a blockade against the delivery, delivery and collection of shipments, letters, packages and pallets made by PostNord and CityMail to all of Tesla's workplaces in all locations in Sweden. This means that, for example, spare parts and components for the workshops will not be delivered by these logistics companies. The blockade means that the sympathy measures remain even if another company takes over the blocked work.
- We back IF Metall 100 percent in this important conflict. We are in an important period for the Swedish trade union movement and for the Swedish model. We and our members will do everything we can so that together we will emerge victorious from this fight for fair conditions for Tesla's employees, says Seko's contract secretary, Ulrika Nilsson.
Seko's industrial action will take effect on 20 November 2023 at 01:00
Notice of extension of conflict measures will be taken in the event that there is a violation of the strike measures.
